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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok, time to start on the motor for the 55 belvedere.
(the wife has nicknamed it "hell's bel", hah hah...)
so, i can either build a 10-1 piston 468" (thats a
454 +.060...) or a 11.5-1 piston 440" ( 427+.060...)

the main difference is the 454 has a 4" crank, and the
427 uses a 3.75" crank. the 468 should make more torque
(more leverage from longer crank) and the 427 should
rev higher/faster through the RPM range.

normally i shift the 468 in my white 78 vette at 6250RPM,
but from previous experience with other motors and cars
we've had over the years, i would expect to shift a 440
around 7500-8000rpm....

my brain says the 468 for the torque. BUT, the 440 short block
is complete (built for another project that got sold off prior
to using.) AND it has forged 7/16 capscrew rods in it.

the 468 i have block crank rods pistons etc but need to
punch the block +.060 for the pistons and turn crank.

im sure either one will be nuttier than squirrel sh*t and get
us an easy 500-550hp no problem. the 468 may give a bit more torque
but the 440 shortblock needs no machine work or assembly...

yep. looks like its going to be the 440. either a voodoo#4 cam
or an isky 292/.595/108. (i actually prefer that one, but again-
i HAVE the voodoo#4 already in the closet brand new...)

big valve oval port "hi-perf-pass" heads, the portagee tunnel ram
with twin 600's, roller top end, and the 4spd muncie with custom
made by the wife shift balls as seen below on the kilduff shifter.

and the wifes favorite color is pink. heres the 468" currently in the
vette. so this ones going to be pink too. trust me, nobody will be laughing
after the first 200ft almost out of control sideways sliding burnout....

cant wait to start working on it...

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Well my preference would be either engine! :) But I'd prefer the lower compression ratio of the 10:1 compression for much street driving myself. Both of my cars are over 10:1 compression, but my 464 BBC (.040" over) has Edelbrock aluminum heads and runs fine on 92 premium, and can get by occasionally with mid grade if I need to. But the 350 SBC with it's old camel hump cast iron heads and 10.25:1 CR pings like a big dog on anything but 92 octane. I add 108 race fuel when racing it, just to up the octane a bit more on hard runs.
If I planned on a lot of street driving, (which is most of my driving) I'd keep the CR low enough to easily run on pump gas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well my preference would be either engine! :) But I'd prefer the lower compression ratio of the 10:1 compression for much street driving myself. Both of my cars are over 10:1 compression, but my 464 BBC (.040" over) has Edelbrock aluminum heads and runs fine on 92 premium, and can get by occasionally with mid grade if I need to. But the 350 SBC with it's old camel hump cast iron heads and 10.25:1 CR pings like a big dog on anything but 92 octane. I add 108 race fuel when racing it, just to up the octane a bit more on hard runs.
If I planned on a lot of street driving, (which is most of my driving) I'd keep the CR low enough to easily run on pump gas.
i agree....but the 427 (440) is already assembled, has steel crank, forged 7/16 capscrew rods and forged pistons
with moly rings and needs cam/heads. the 468 is in pieces and needs bore @ machine shop. ( $500+ with hot tank
and cam bearings !!! )

hey, im sure there are thicker head gaskets. or i suppose i could just run 104+ additive when i want to beat on it....
 

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It sounds like you've got it covered, either way. And as Vall said, My preference would be either one also. A flip of a coin wouldn't hurt my feelings, no matter the outcome. But then there is the consideration of spending additional $$ at the machine shop that would go a long ways toward putting "hell's bel" on the road.

Whatever the choice, I look forward to watching your transformation..... Best of luck!
 

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Here is how I make decisions like this one.
I imagine ahead to some time in the future when I am enjoying the car at a cruise or any outing, I think about when someone asks about the motor, am I going to be apologizing or making excuses? Or am I going to say I have exactly what I wanted in the long run, I always think long term.

I learned this along time ago, there is a terrible feeling to be saying, "I spent all this money but I didn't get what I wanted" here and there etc.

You only YOU, gotta "Feel Good" about your project, that is what is important!

fatguyzinc, Do you "Feel Good" about your motor ????
 

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Also, the heavier the car, the more you need the torque on launch and to dig away from the "bottom" of each upshift. I always lean toward Torque.




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Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i fully agree--but as mentioned, the 427 needs no machine work and its already assembled.
the $ that machining and parts like bearings,etc for the 454 would run will cover the cost of finishing
the 427 with headgaskets and such PLUS buy the motor mounts, trans mount, AND headers.

pretty sure the 427 wont be no slouch either.... again if money was no object then id be
looking for a blown 392 or 426 hemi with a crossram and a NP A-844 4spd, but unless ed
mcmahon finally delivers that check hes been telling me i 'may have already won' for the
last decade, it aint gonna happen......
 

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I personally can't enjoy an engine or car if I'm constantly having to make special or expensive fuel choices. It's a bummer to be heading out on a cruise with your buddies and be limited by where you can buy fuel, or any other inconvenient choices they don't have to make.
I've tried those octane boosters in my Austin, and they didn't do anything. The 108 race fuel costs $8.00 a gallon, so even just pouring a few gallons into my tank to boost the average octane costs another $25 for that tank. I don't mind that for the occasional trip to the drags, but the station is 10 miles away, and $25 extra. If I had to do it every tank I'd be looking for a engine rework to make it more street friendly.
This same sort of thing makes me put 3x-4x as many miles on my Austin than I put on my Falcon. The Falcon gets maybe 5 mpg, while the Austin gets nearly 20 mpg. It's a lot more fun driving a car I don't have too constantly feed! Both are equally fun to drive, but the Austin is more fun with less fuel stops!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
even at 11-1, i would run 92 octane around town. just need
to make sure the timings right. and if i know im gonna beat on it,
im sure 99.99999999999% of places like napa, oreally, autozone,
heck even walgreen or walmart carries booster. i get what youre
saying, hell, i even agree the 'smarter' choice is the 10-1 468.

but the 427 is DONE already, needs nothing, shes ready to rumble.
i might look for a different set of heads to drop the compression,
im sure theres at least a few guys out there that want the hi-comp
small chamber heads and would trade+cash me for mine....
 

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Use the force OB1. 427 sounds like a great motor and like you said its done and paid for. Run it the way it is and goose it with some 108 every once in a while. Hey Sol check your IM.
 

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Go with the 427 AND E-85. no compression woes. 11:1 with booze isn't a problem. Almost every station on the island probably has E-85. Besides you might still be able to run a blower later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
well, the decision was made for me--my younger brother took the 427 and stuck it in his 67
camaro while i was gone. f*cker. so im going to have to build the 468" now. mo money, mo
money, mo money.............
 

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Bailiff! Whack his Pee-Pee!
 

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I'd pick the 427 since its complete and ready to go. HOWEVER, when I see street cruising I see a problem with way over 10-1 compression. If you can consistantly use and get a premium gas 91+ it still is marginal at best. If you can swap to some 10-1 aluminum heads I think it would be much safer.

I'd also get an AFR gage so you can get the carb dead perfect. It's a little time consuming but well worth it. I spent many weekends changing IFR and power valves to get my blown sbc to run as well as it does. I even cruise on 87 when necessary. It's got over 20k miles now and other than MSD problems and stupid shaved door handle stuff, runs very well and reliably.

Also consider an OD trans. You can get some pretty well done ones from Bow tie OD. Otherwise plan on 3.42 or 3.73 gears for street cruising. I have 3.42 in my el Camino and they are about perfect. It won't hurt the 427 to cruise ar 2500-2800 rpm. I drove my 67 Chevelle 396 with 3.73 gears over 100k before I stupidly over revved it.

I see a few guys with dual tanks with race gas in one but I think it's a huge problem. I simply don't like to mix street and strip. I had my first strip only car back in the mid 60's and towed with the 56 Nomad for a long time. It's not fun bringing a broken race car home but a lot less fun bringing a broken street car home from the track.

Byron
 
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