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Cruizer. The Ford T-10s were used before the toploaders. Ford built their own trans because they were having breakage in the T-10s with their big gun motors and designed the toploader 4 speed (they already had the top loader three speed I believe) to address that problem. Plus get the trans money back in house. The ford bolt pattern was a narrow pattern that the Ford T-10s had and Ford used that same pattern when they first came out with the top loader. But for some reason Ford decided they needed more stability at that point and started a wider bolt pattern I think around 1965. If you do some research on the Ford toploaders you'll see dual bolt patterns, both narrow and wide, on most if not all toploaders but, I believe and I may not be correct, but I believe the Ford T-10 only had the narrow pattern. I also can't say, since I never really looked into it, if the ford bellhousings after the switch used both bolt patterns or if they just changed to the wide bolt pattern after late '64/'65??? If you have or use a Ford T-10 I'm sure you can find a bellhousing for the early bolt pattern. I just never looked into it so I can't say for sure, but they must be out there. Mark L
 

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I had a friend back in the 70's that had a beautiful Y block '57 Ford and dropped a Super T10 GM trans right in it. Bolt pattern was the same as his old 3 spd., but he had to run a different clutch to match the ST10 splines.
 

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The GM and the Ford that I know of are not even close. So not sure how it all bolted together? Unless they shared transmissions at some time and some early Fords used the GM pattern. Anything is possible and you never know what could be. MArk L
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If you have or use a Ford T-10 I'm sure you can find a bellhousing for the early bolt pattern. I just never looked into it so I can't say for sure, but they must be out there.
Maybe not.....I'm working with a 460, and a hard to find 429/460 bellhousing. The 385 series big blocks came out after Ford phased out the T-10, so if the pattern were different, I doubt they'd match. I don't have either a Toploader or T-10 yet, just in my search for a 4-speed, good used-but-working T-10's seems can be found cheaper than a Toploader in similar condition.

I've got both a Chevy 383 stroker and a 454 along with a couple of Muncie M-21's , and have been sorely tempted to cross-breed my Falcon.
 

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Ah yes cross bread. :D :D sometimes that gets the project on the go ! ! Maybe a few years down the road ya can do the switch back after you've found acquired all the hard to find parts. Just don't cruise in to an all Ford show like I did many years ago with a 33 Ford coupe powered by a de-stroked 302 DZ motor...... :eek: :eek: how red was my face :D :D
 

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Steve, how "destroked"? A DZ 302 already has a 3 inch stroke. How much shorter was it? By the way, the Z28 302s will always be my favorite small inch motor. Mark L
 

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Mark from what I remember it was a 277 cui a friend that has a speed shop use to run a Monza, with the same and when he would freshen I would get his " junk " which was my gold. If I have the numbers wrong correct me but again as I remember it was 302 Chevy destroked to 277. If I'm off it could be a 283 ....... But the cob webs are hard to see threw :D
 

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Ya looking on the web I found another fellow saying the same thing that There all 3 inch. So now maybe the stroked part is not correct what would one do to get smaller cubes. Or would they be figuring smaller bore ? I do remember the 277 would it be a 265 like 10 over ?
We should start a thread so we don't hijack Cruizer65's thread. :D

Here's a good start : http://www.gasserhotrods.com/forum/showthread.php?835-Destroked-engines&p=9722#post9722
 

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Mark hit it pretty close. There are some shaft size differences on top loaders and the hole where the Pilot bearing retainer fits in the bell housing can be different from early narrow and late wide pattern top loaders. Ford t10's are weak not the super t10s some GM cars had but the top loader is real strong.
 

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Here is a link to all the info on toploaders:
http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/toploaderhistory.htm

The torque that 460 will make you might want to go with a large input & output shaft toploader. Look for a bellhousing out of a 70's 460 truck or you can go with an aftermarket blowproof bell. Any of the toploaders can be upgraded to the larger input shaft, and you can change the smaller output shaft toploaders 25spline or 28spline to the 31spline heavy duty output shaft also. I have a early falcon toploader with the T10 narrow mounting pattern case and 25spline output shaft, i'm changing out the case to the wider pattern and the output shaft to the 31 spline piece and large input. I got the Falcon tranny cheap because no-one wanted it, it's like new on the inside, what I paid for it I can afford to swap out the parts to make it bulletproof. You can pick up an parts trans cheap, buy up a few and build you a good one. That link has about all the toploader parts you would ever need. They will take some serious abuse, been running them for many years.
 
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