[casey w]

Hey fellas, you all know i plan on a 327 build from my prostreet 64 impala. I was thinkng to even be more unique i could build a 302 chevy. I have the stuff to build it and it would even be more of a high winder than the 327. Just entertaining the idea, whats your take on this. I LOVE RPM

 

[1946Austin]

The old 327 with a 283 crank results in a 301, and they are fantastic engines if you like high winders! For some reason when Chevy built their version (DZ302) it is called a 302, and not a 301 like the hotrodder's version.
I had a '55 gasser with a '67 283 I built for it back over 40 years ago. I loved that high winding 283, and it ran like a scalded dog. Used to really tick off the guys in their new SS396 Camaros and Chevelles when I beat them with my stock bore 283!

 

[casey w]

The old 327 with a 283 crank results in a 301, and they are fantastic engines if you like high winders! For some reason when Chevy built their version (DZ302) it is called a 302, and not a 301 like the hotrodder's version.
I had a '55 gasser with a '67 283 I built for it back over 40 years ago. I loved that high winding 283, and it ran like a scalded dog. Used to really tick off the guys in their new SS396 Camaros and Chevelles when I beat them with my stock bore 283!

Vall, you are correct, the exact cubic inch for 4 in bore and 3 in stroke is 301.59. I use the equation of bore x bore x stroke x 6.2832.I Guess they rounded it up lol. I have the stuff to make a .040 over bore which will be 308 cubes. I like bein different plus the fact that someone realizes their rat just got spanked by a mouse is all part of the wow factor IMO

 

[ProMetalShop]

Yes they did round up..... I have a nice 4 bolt main DZ block that I have to get out of storage and clean it up and painted so it don't go to waist .....

 

[casey w]

so a while back i asked if anyone had built up a chevy 302 on another forum thats not of a nastalgic nature. yeah, I got laughed at and all i heard was: build a 383 or put a big block in it! Some people just don't get it. Or atleast dont think like i do. I'm thinking something diff you dont see often. And the ones who think the 283/302/327's cant make pwr are just undeducated. I can make 500hp from a 302 or 327 just like they can with their 383. I know I will have to wind mine alot higher to make that hp, but oh what fun it is

 

[19mach69]

Casey, that is pretty much any forum anymore. It's all about stroking the engine. I can see if you are going max effort to stroke an engine. If it is a street engine, I would be more inclined to leave the stock stroke, which all of my engines are stock displacement. I know guy on another forum who runs 10's with a ford 302 and 60's iron heads. If you know anything about 60's ford heads for the 260, 289, 302 and 351w, they suck! Anyone can stroke an engine for cubes, but not anyone can build a nice stock displacement or destroked engine with great tricks and techniques to make power. A guy in Chaparral NM who had a classic car junkyard said his favorite engine was a 327. He liked it over the 350 for circle track racing and said he was more successful with the 327.

 

[casey w]

I agree with you Isaac. I guess it comes down to personal preference. I like the short stroke high winders, even in a street/strip car. Guess I should just build what I want. Just hard to decide between 327 and 302 as i have parts for both.

 

[casey w]

Thought i would throw this in b4 i head to bed. I know my eng combo is pretty radical for most anyway. With that said, my own personal philosophy is "The only difference between a race car and a street car is one has license."

 

[1946Austin]

Isaac is right! Every forum I look at laughs at destroked engines and touts the virtues of long stroke engines! I actually had some people tell me that the 302/301 Chevy SB "couldn't get out of it's own tracks at launch" on a forum just this year. The young poster said they were only good between 3,500-7,000 rpm's, and under that they couldn't even break the tires loose! What total BS from the uneducated youth!
I can remember just before I went in the Air Force in 1969 my best friend came by with a brand new '69 Z28 he'd just purchased. He took me for a spin in it, and I've never ridden in a stock vehicle before that with so much power! That was a wild ride for sure!

 

[19mach69]

I am in the same line of thinking. If I can stand to sit in the car to drive to work, then it is still a street car! I may have to wear earplugs, but that's ok. I want a big cam for my 460 because anything less should be a felony.

 

[mt94ss]

So, I just got a '66 283. What are the tricks for building it up? Is the process similar to a de-stroked 327? This could be a great thread idea for building a high-winding small displacement SBC.

Mike

 

[Marks63PontiacGasser]

I'm all about short stroke motors. If I were ot build a small chavey I'd build a 400 block with a 302 crank. That gets you around 327 inches but the bigger bore will unshroud the valves a little and make better flow on every head compared to the 4 inch bore. It would wind like a MO FO and the added bore area/flow would make great power up there. It will be a little lacking on the very bottom end but I'd go for a T-56 with the double overdrive and very tall gears on the back, like 4:88's or 5:13's. It would sound like you're going through the gears every time you drive even though you're just driving normally. And with the higher rpm potential you can use each gear longer. Casey, you should able to get your Imp down to 3400-3500 lbs so a well built 302 shold be fine and loads of fun. But that's just me, LOL. Mark L

 

[casey w]

So, I just got a '66 283. What are the tricks for building it up? Is the process similar to a de-stroked 327? This could be a great thread idea for building a high-winding small displacement SBC.

Mike

Mike, the 283 is a great engine. Its nothing more then a small more 302. 3.875 bore and 3.0 in stroke. I ran one that was .060 over (292 cuin) and loved it. Same rules apply for the 283 as the 302/327. Its all in the cylinder head! Get a good flowing head, solid cam and let er zing up there. I also know that heads with 2.08 and 1.6 valves will clear on a .060 over 283. It will run better with the bigger valves reguardless of what some say. I know the cylinder shroulds the valves, but only on one side and i'v seen dyno results. So to me the valve shrouding is a myth for pwr loss. Hope this helps.

 

[casey w]

I'm all about short stroke motors. If I were ot build a small chavey I'd build a 400 block with a 302 crank. That gets you around 327 inches but the bigger bore will unshroud the valves a little and make better flow on every head compared to the 4 inch bore. It would wind like a MO FO and the added bore area/flow would make great power up there. It will be a little lacking on the very bottom end but I'd go for a T-56 with the double overdrive and very tall gears on the back, like 4:88's or 5:13's. It would sound like you're going through the gears every time you drive even though you're just driving normally. And with the higher rpm potential you can use each gear longer. Casey, you should able to get your Imp down to 3400-3500 lbs so a well built 302 shold be fine and loads of fun. But that's just me, LOL. Mark L

Mark, I'm with ya friend! Glad someone actually likes what i'm doin and understands ole school builds. I think I will now for sure build the 302. Might even name the car "RAT HUNTER" The Impala will actually be down around 3200 lbs, so with my wild combo of parts, 4 speed, and 5.43 gears, this should be a blast. Nothing like the sweet sounding music of a high winding short stroke engine

 

[map351]

GENE SCHWARTZ Injected 272 (I was told) wings it to 9K+

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=gene+schwartz+gasser&oq=Gene+Swartz+gasser&gs_l=hp.1.0.0i13i30.2862.17103.1.19051.18.18.0.0.0 .0.133.1953.3j15.18.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.jWgixBvXn AQ&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=b525fcc33864d348&bpcl=39314241&biw=939&bih=587

 

[1946Austin]

So, I just got a '66 283. What are the tricks for building it up? Is the process similar to a de-stroked 327? This could be a great thread idea for building a high-winding small displacement SBC.

Mike

If I were building a sbc 283 I would find a pair of old 1.94 fueler heads, or a good modern head with 1.94/1.60 valves and a chamber around 64cc. The later high flowing heads will not work as well with their large runners, as they're just too much for a small bore engine. I'd also go with pistons around 10 or 10.5:1 cr to maximise the combustion, but still run on pump gas. I'd bore it .030", unless the stock bore was great, and I'd leave it with just a hone then. For a cam I'd do something similar to the old Duntov 30-30 cam with solid lifters, and Comp Cams sells a reproduction of it. I'd put a good 650-700cfm carb and open plenum intake on it, and call it good.
This is similar to the setup I ran in my '55 gasser back in 1970, along with a Muncie M22, and 3.90 gears. My '55 would lift the front wheels with a 5,000 rpm launch, and beat a lot of BBC powered cars on the street back then.
I've been thinking BBC for my next build, but now you've got me excited about a small bore SBC!

 

[casey w]

If I were building a sbc 283 I would find a pair of old 1.94 fueler heads, or a good modern head with 1.94/1.60 valves and a chamber around 64cc. The later high flowing heads will not work as well with their large runners, as they're just too much for a small bore engine. I'd also go with pistons around 10 or 10.5:1 cr to maximise the combustion, but still run on pump gas. I'd bore it .030", unless the stock bore was great, and I'd leave it with just a hone then. For a cam I'd do something similar to the old Duntov 30-30 cam with solid lifters, and Comp Cams sells a reproduction of it. I'd put a good 650-700cfm carb and open plenum intake on it, and call it good.
This is similar to the setup I ran in my '55 gasser back in 1970, along with a Muncie M22, and 3.90 gears. My '55 would lift the front wheels with a 5,000 rpm launch, and beat a lot of BBC powered cars on the street back then.
I've been thinking BBC for my next build, but now you've got me excited about a small bore SBC!

Vall, I would agree with your combo for a street strip car. Sounds like it worked well. The heads i have are BIG and flow enough to feed the small cubes to 10,000 + rpm. So after talking with my buddy and engine builder who ran modified elimenator back in the day and has ran heads up for years we are in agreement to run weiand stealth dual plane intake i have. 1500-6800 rpm range and up to 7500 with spacer. Also the dual plane will calm down the 220cc heads i have by slowing down and limiting the air coming in. I hope it works well and now I'm excited about putting the 302 together. I mean 327's are very rare anymore and the 302 is even more rare. All the more reason to build it! Also, both Lunati and Schneider recommended the same cams for the 302 as they did the 327.
I know by most peoples standards this is far from the ideal street/strip combo. But like i said, I like different and unique and the high winding small block fits the bill
Cant wait to get this thing together, I feel like a kid waiting for santa to come.

 

[casey w]

GENE SCHWARTZ Injected 272 (I was told) wings it to 9K+

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=gene+schwartz+gasser&oq=Gene+Swartz+gasser&gs_l=hp.1.0.0i13i30.2862.17103.1.19051.18.18.0.0.0 .0.133.1953.3j15.18.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.jWgixBvXn AQ&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=b525fcc33864d348&bpcl=39314241&biw=939&bih=587

loved the the video. Check this one out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwsr2IbnyT8&feature=share&list=PL2060481D0E09FF99

 

[Cptnbob]

Some great footage guys, thanks.

In the early 70's I ran a sbc 302, early '68 DZ small journal, two bolt mains, punched .060 (311). Crane iron 72 cc heads, 202/160 valves, Engle roller cam, TRW 12.5:1 pistons and Hillborn injection. For five years launched 7000-7500 and carried it through the traps at 10,000. Never did more than adjust valve lash, oil and filter. Well........twisted on the fuel valve many a time!

Needless to say......I love.... a 302.

 

[1946Austin]

Casey, I'd run the larger heads if I was building a strip mainly 283, and I'd up the compression a lot more for a dragstrip engine. I'd also go more cam for a car that spent most it's time on the dragstrip. But I'd stay more moderate on the street if I built a 283 so I could enjoy it without having to tinker or fuss with it.
The dual plane intake is a good choice on any small displacement engine, but I like the open plenums for a little better high end flow. I really don't think either is a bad choice unless you get too crazy on the intake.