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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What do you guys think of an old cup and spring style tie rod link behind the I beam axle and the cross steer vega box drag link in front of the I beam running over to the passenger side in front of the axle with the steering arm flipped forward to keep it parallel across?
My gut feeling on this is that it will be fine after reading some of the threads and what you guys experienced already.
Any help would be a real gas!!! LOL
I will post some project pics when I get a chance.
thanks
mario
 

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MM.....Look forward to the pics.... I also have some front suspension issues to work out so I'll be watching this thread.... so THANK YOU!!!!!

The tube chassis that practically "fell from hot rod Heaven" last Fall (only $250 from a hot rod buddy) is missing some parts from the front suspension as well as the rear end which the original owner kept before he took his Vega SW off of this the chassis & put it on the new tube chassis he had build (7.50 certified)

Along with missing front suspension parts the narrowed 9" Ford housing (35") is also missing parts. So I will have to figure out what kind of pieces of the "puzzle" are missing for both the "front" and "rear" suspensions.

Just from looking at it I can see it is missing both front & rear coil over shocks - also tie rods - drag link - ladder bars and who knows what else??? ..... I'll have to take a few pics to show you what I mean.

Plus even though I was told the front suspension is a Vega it has 4.5" wheel pattern on the front????? You'd think it would be 4 3/4" So who knows????

Have a good day!!!!
 

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I assume you're referring to the Borgeson ends when you say cup and spring? Like this:

Most people seem to run the tierod and the drag link on the same side of the axle, but I see no reason that using the old cup style tierod behind, and steering it up front wouldn't work, and probably be better than both on the same side. I ran both up front, but didn't really have a good option, or I'd have run the tierod in the back, and steer in front.
The old cup and spring tierods are really solid, and with everything tight, and cotter pins in the ends to keep things tight, they're as solid as anything newer. The only reason they went away was probably cost. They're not as cheap to build as a tapered fit tierod end, or a heim. I've used the original cup and spring ends from '55-'57 Chevys to do the drag link steering on several '55-'57 Chevy straight axle cars I've built, but never used it on both ends. It's sure an easy end to disassemble if it ever needs to be removed for service!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I assume you're referring to the Borgeson ends when you say cup and spring? Like this:

Most people seem to run the tierod and the drag link on the same side of the axle, but I see no reason that using the old cup style tierod behind, and steering it up front wouldn't work, and probably be better than both on the same side. I ran both up front, but didn't really have a good option, or I'd have run the tierod in the back, and steer in front.
The old cup and spring tierods are really solid, and with everything tight, and cotter pins in the ends to keep things tight, they're as solid as anything newer. The only reason they went away was probably cost. They're not as cheap to build as a tapered fit tierod end, or a heim. I've used the original cup and spring ends from '55-'57 Chevys to do the drag link steering on several '55-'57 Chevy straight axle cars I've built, but never used it on both ends. It's sure an easy end to disassemble if it ever needs to be removed for service!
Yes that's it and it did come from 55 chevy pickup truck. It was originally on my coupe and now its finding a home on my mg gasser project. I will try to put some project pics on the forum soon.
The car is such a rusty mess. But I think it will be cool being Im tearing everything out of it anyway.
I put the gear box in front of the I beam and seems its best there for pleasing angle for both steering arm and columun angle too while out of engine area as well. Didn't do any welding on the bracket yet. The I beam was shortened a long time ago once for the coupe and now I took another 10 inches out of it for the mg. Nothing like recycling parts...LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
MM.....Look forward to the pics.... I also have some front suspension issues to work out so I'll be watching this thread.... so THANK YOU!!!!!

The tube chassis that practically "fell from hot rod Heaven" last Fall (only $250 from a hot rod buddy) is missing some parts from the front suspension as well as the rear end which the original owner kept before he took his Vega SW off of this tbe chassis & put it on the new tube chassis he had build (7.50 certified)

Along with missing feont suspension parts the narrowed 9" Ford housing (35") is also missing parts. So I will have to figure out what kind of pieces of the "puzzle" are missing for both the "front" and "rear" suspensions.

Just from looking at it I can see it is missing both front & rear coil over shocks - also tie rods - drag link - ladder bars and who knows what else??? ..... I'll have to take a few pics to show you what I mean.

Plus even though I was told the front suspension is a Vega it has 4.5" wheel pattern on the front????? You'd think it would be 4 3/4" So who knows????

Have a good day!!!!
thanks , looking forward to seeing your chassis pics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Gotta make do with what we have to work with, or spend big bucks for custom stuff! I narrowed my Speedway tube axle about 6" to get it inside the fenders on my Austin.
this whole mg project I started last winter is all about hand me downs. so it will be very interesting. spending will be minimal. only real heavy purchase will be axles for the rear which were shortened.
And the re-ring kit for the 350 I have on hand. Hopefully anyway. Its such an outrageous project to v8 even my wife is intrigued by it.
 

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this whole mg project ......
I remember an MG that was always parked next to an old fashion "Mom & Pop" Service/gas station (remember those???) ..... it was an MGA -in brown primer - carbs sticking up (no hood) ..... never thought it ran until one day I saw "white shoe polish" on the windshield and all over its body.

At that time there were NO dragstrips in the Pittsburgh area so most hot rodders just raced on the street rather than figure out a way to get a car 100 miles or more to a dragstrip. This was in the "early sixties" so back then in addition to most "hot rodders" not have any $$$$, trailers, etc there were also NO major highways to travel on like we take for granted today. So the "street" was the place most drag racing took place.

We did not have any place to drag race until 1963 when we raced at Heildelburg Race Way (an oval track) on the 1/8 mile straight away portion of the dirt track.... yes "dirt !!!!" The following year Pittsburgh International Dragway opened ('64 until '76).....

Never got the chance to talk to the owner about that MG & then one day it just disappeared. Still is a fond memory of how it "used to be".

This story is just one of the many reasons for the phrase I use in my signature.... :( :mad: :(

Such a "sad commentary" where drag racing as we once knew it has gone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I remember an MG that was always parked next to an old fashion "Mom & Pop" Service/gas station (remember those???) ..... it was an MGA -in brown primer - carbs sticking up (no hood) ..... never thought it ran until one day I saw "white shoe polish" on the windshield and all over its body.

At that time there were NO dragstrips in the Pittsburgh area so most hot rodders just raced on the street rather than figure out a way to get a car 100 miles or more to a dragstrip. This was in the "early sixties" so back then in addition to most "hot rodders" not have any $$$$, trailers, etc there were also NO major highways to travel on like we take for granted today. So the "street" was the place most drag racing took place.

We did not have any place to drag race until 1963 when we raced at Heildelburg Race Way (an oval track) on the 1/8 mile straight away portion of the dirt track.... yes "dirt !!!!" The following year Pittsburgh International Dragway opened ('64 until '76).....

Never got the chance to talk to the owner about that MG & then one day it just disappeared. Still is a fond memory of how it "used to be".

This story is just one of the many reasons for the phrase I use in my signature.... :( :mad: :(

Such a "sad commentary" where drag racing as we once knew it has gone.
So true John. we here on Long Island lost 3 dragstrips from the 60's. We are currently lobbying on Lidragracing.com to try any way possible to organize and get raceway here again. So hard though. EPA. DEC. local residents and politicians are a major hurdle to overcome. Yet there are constant racing accidents deaths on the busy streets.
doen't make any sense. Anyway Im getting off topic here but thanks for the memories.
mario
 

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We often get OT on a thread here at GHR, but that's not always a bad thing! Our local dragstrip has worked closely with city officials to not only encourage racing at the dragstrip, but make it available and cheap. They have special nights for high school drivers to run, plus Friday night drags that are keyed towards street vehicles, so no trailered cars allowed.
It's taken a lot of work to overcome more noisy night complaints from residents that live within a mile of the track, but so far the races continue. It's also cut down on street racing, and street racing accidents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok guys I have another cross steering theory question. Passenger side steering arm in front of the axle connecting the drag link over to the driver side Pitman arm. So are you following me on this?
I have the vega box mounted all the way up front on the driver side, so the pitman arm connection is almost directly across from the steering arm connection with a slight rearward angle.
So My drag link is angled slightly rearward maybe 3 to 5 degrees off parallel to the IBeam, at the vega box. If I were to shorten the pitman arm about 2 inches it would be parallel to the Ibeam axle.
Now that i painted the picture, Is it better to have an angle from box to steering arm or have it perfectly parallel straight from box to arm?
Do I have to worry about bump steer in either situation. Level horizontally its almost level across.
What did you guys experience with this?
mm
 

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Having it perfectly parallel is nice, but rarely possible, and if it's a few degrees out I'd bet you wont ever know by driving feel. Perfectly level isn't really what you want either, as travel will take it out of level and slightly change the length too. In an "as close to perfect" situation you'll want the drag link slightly downhill, so it is level at mid suspension travel, and slightly uphill at full travel. Rare to get it perfect either way, but if it's close you wont get bump steer.
As you can see in this picture, mine is slightly downhill and almost parallel, and I get no bump steer at all.

 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
awesome. I have that exact situation. It runs slightly downhill to the steering arm. Guess I better burn in that plate before it moves. Lol. Thanks so much Val.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
What is the consensus on front shocks?
At one time I had them on the coupe and took them off and never felt a difference.
It didnt bounce at all on the street. Now I'm thinking about the
Mg midget. She should be real stiff up front with the springs. I know shocks are
Normal requirement but I didnt miss them on the coupe at all back before the accident


Mm
 

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I don't know Mario, as I've just always run them. I usually end up buying them used from a friend or swap meet. They go for pennies on the dollar, so not a huge investment. The KYB's I have were $20 I think, and the coilovers I used out back were $40 a pair I believe.
Last weekend at the swap meet I must have seen several hundred shocks on various tables, plus tons of replacement springs for coilovers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
In the rear I'm going to run the vw coil assist with the adjustable height collar.
It's the front I don't know what I'm doing yet. Problem is setting up the brackets
For it before I paint everything. Hate to do double the work. On and off and off and on
Lol
 

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In the rear I'm going to run the vw coil assist with the adjustable height collar.
It's the front I don't know what I'm doing yet. Problem is setting up the brackets
For it before I paint everything. Hate to do double the work. On and off and off and on
Lol
Same here! I know it's always part of a build, but I try to minimize the off-on routine as much as possible. Having adjustment built in helps that, but I haven't discovered a way to do an adjustable mounting system in a straight axle frontend! The rear suspension is so much easier to adjust when using coil overs. You can have mounts with multiple holes for the shocks, and fine tune with the adjusters on the coils.
 

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MM, looking at the picks of your axle I not only noticed you shortened the axle but ground down the original spring mount bosses and are adding new ones at the appropriate width, I never had thought of doing that. It gives me an idea, Oh by the way what method of welding are you doing to mate the axle halves back together? Andy
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Im glad my idea gave you an idea. but its only a trial and error right now. I think it will work fine. I butted the 2 halves with an angled outer edge so I could puddle the welds in far enough. Im using the LIncoln 225 stick welder to do it cause I think its hotter than my 110 lincoln mig. Someone before me put flat stock on both sides before so I did it again just smaller lengths. I don't think I could trust a butt weld only. Glad I gave you some ideas. I have more pics coming soon. I have not been feeling well since november and I lost a lot of time on the build.
Mario
 
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