White fender well headers. Paint or Ceramic coating? [Archive] - Gasser HotRods

: White fender well headers. Paint or Ceramic coating?



MAXFLO
10-21-2012, 03:41 PM
Hi guys, just wondering what you guys think is best. Mine are painted white with the hi temp vht rattle can kind. I'm not too crazy with how its lasted. Of course its probably just my poor skills in painting things. Tried following the directions as much as possible. Just wondering if anyone has tried white ceramic coating and if its lasts.

1946Austin
10-21-2012, 06:31 PM
White ceramic coating is somewhat new. For years you could get almost any color, but white. I don't know anyone who's used it yet in my area. I've never had good luck with white high heat paint, and that's why I went silver paint. It seems to hold up better.

ProMetalShop
10-21-2012, 08:51 PM
I hope the white jet coat works , cause it would look really period correct.... ;)

OpelGasser
10-21-2012, 10:27 PM
Seems like you can never know what to expect.

I bought a new set of ceramic coated Hedman headers for my SBC El Camino. Paid extra $$$$ for the coated ones figuring I'd finally get a set of headers I wouldn't be constantly messing with to keep them looking good.

After driving the car all Summer& put away for the Winter when Spring came the headers had started "pitting" along with rust all over the headers. Especially on the tubing nearest to the flanges.

I prefer the look of WHITE ..... which seems like the toughest one to keep looking right.

If someone has "white that works" I'd like to know.

I have found that for some reason "silver" seems to hang on the best. Used to have some silver I got from work that was used to paint steel around a industrial furnace. (1550+ degrees) which worked great. First used it on stock headers which I didn't even clean up at all.

MAXFLO
10-21-2012, 11:38 PM
I'll make some calls and see if the ceramic coating companies offer white. Shoot, it might cost more than what i paid for the headers to do it though. And for it not work or not last would really suck. I guess we'll have to see.

rivieragasser
10-22-2012, 08:41 PM
Try Branden Enterprises p.o. box 511 feasterville PA 19053 215-327-4926. he has a white high heat paint thats great i used it on the exhaust on my Mack truck and it runs 10hrs a day threw rock mines and sand pits and it washes clean every time no chips! $20 a can..

MAXFLO
10-22-2012, 09:59 PM
Try Branden Enterprises p.o. box 511 feasterville PA 19053 215-327-4926. he has a white high heat paint thats great i used it on the exhaust on my Mack truck and it runs 10hrs a day threw rock mines and sand pits and it washes clean every time no chips! $20 a can..

20$? Awesome! Thats right up my budget alley! I'll give him a call and see if he's ok shipping to Texas. Thanks for the tip! MAX

1946Austin
10-23-2012, 01:43 AM
20$? Awesome! Thats right up my budget alley! I'll give him a call and see if he's ok shipping to Texas. Thanks for the tip! MAX

If it works I'll be ordering a can too! I wanted white, but none of it sticks well. I'd gladly have mine blasted off and paint again in white that sticks.

OpelGasser
10-23-2012, 07:28 AM
Speaking of "white paint".

Makes me recall how we used to paint everything underneath the car & the inner fenderwells ALL white. It was a popular thing to do back in late '60's thru the muscle car era into the early '70's.

Haven't seen anyone doing it much today although I am sure someone out there has. I have seen some on-line photos from back then showing this "trendy" yet "short-lived" touch of things hot rodders used to do.

1946Austin
10-23-2012, 11:38 AM
Yeah we used to paint that red wedge on a black painted rear wheel too, to make it look like a race car!

CCPcoatings.com
10-24-2012, 03:31 AM
Hi guys, just wondering what you guys think is best. Mine are painted white with the hi temp vht rattle can kind. I'm not too crazy with how its lasted. Of course its probably just my poor skills in painting things. Tried following the directions as much as possible. Just wondering if anyone has tried white ceramic coating and if its lasts.

I think most would agree that Ceramic Coating is the best way to go about any exhaust coating, BUT it’s certainly not the cheapest relative to a couple cans of VHT. It depends what your budget is and what your time is worth. How many times are you going to yank your headers off, blast them and coat them before you get tired of doing it??? We see some customers with limited success with black VHT’s, but I haven’t seen any success stories with white. It’s also not a real common color though. It’s pretty specific to vintage and nostalgic cars.

We've had pretty good luck with the white Ceramic Coating we’re currently using. Below is a 1 of 6 original 289 Shelby Cobra race car we did that is still ACTIVELY raced. This seems a bit crazy for a $750,000.00 irreplaceable car, buts that’s just me, lol…..

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kszoqA11kUM/UDq_98ORrhI/AAAAAAAAEk8/6QYslJf4QOA/s720/DSC01753.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZlRdkFcNfvk/UIeHv_Bv9TI/AAAAAAAAE6w/EIA9DFcgvlY/s720/cobra5.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3T6yy7Ij1ss/UIeHvNLpoNI/AAAAAAAAE6w/SGnkZQAU4WY/s720/cobra4.jpg

MAXFLO
10-24-2012, 03:55 AM
[QUOTE=CCPcoatings.com;11241]I think most would agree that Ceramic Coating is the best way to go about any exhaust coating, BUT itís certainly not the cheapest relative to a couple cans of VHT. It depends what your budget is and what your time is worth. How many times are you going to yank your headers off, blast them and coat them before you get tired of doing it??? We see some customers with limited success with black VHTís, but I havenít seen any success stories with white. Itís also not a real common color though. Itís pretty specific to vintage and nostalgic cars.

We've had pretty good luck with the white Ceramic Coating weíre currently using. Below is a 1 of 6 original 289 Shelby Cobra race car we did that is still ACTIVELY raced. This seems a bit crazy for a $750,000.00 irreplaceable car, buts thatís just me, lolÖ..


Thanks for the info, I'll definitely give you guys a call.

ProMetalShop
10-24-2012, 06:22 AM
Well CCP welcome to Gasserhotrods.com, how about giving us a bit of insight on what to look for when choosing a metal coating company. We love tech stuff........ ;)

CCPcoatings.com
10-24-2012, 12:07 PM
Well CCP welcome to Gasserhotrods.com, how about giving us a bit of insight on what to look for when choosing a metal coating company. We love tech stuff........ ;)

Thanks..... We'd be glad to help. What is it specifically you'd like to know?

MAXFLO
10-24-2012, 02:47 PM
Thanks..... We'd be glad to help. What is it specifically you'd like to know?

Turn around times and maybe just some ball park figures on what some of the products run. Also, if you need headers blasted prior to receiving them. I guess gust some FAQ type of stuff. Thanks!!

ProMetalShop
10-24-2012, 09:51 PM
Well Max about covered it....... I also wondered what we should expect as far as longevity. Dose it make a difference if the car is only seasonal ? Are there any special care we should give to extend the luster or finish, and why is it the header always seem to start to show rust threw in the collector area, right were the for pipes enter. Is it better to have it coated inside also or is that really a waists ? What are the differences in product that allows the coating to with stand higher temps ? What proses do you do after blasting ? Do you do a chemical wash, and do you preheat the parts? ;) Thanks CCP ! !

CCPcoatings.com
10-26-2012, 03:46 AM
Well Max about covered it....... I also wondered what we should expect as far as longevity. Dose it make a difference if the car is only seasonal ? Are there any special care we should give to extend the luster or finish, and why is it the header always seem to start to show rust threw in the collector area, right were the for pipes enter. Is it better to have it coated inside also or is that really a waists ? What are the differences in product that allows the coating to with stand higher temps ? What proses do you do after blasting ? Do you do a chemical wash, and do you preheat the parts? ;) Thanks CCP ! !


Excellent questions gentlemen. Let me catch up on a few things and I'll address all of your concerns and then some in a "Ceramic Coating 101" tutorial by the weekend for you guys.

Thanks

CCPcoatings.com
10-28-2012, 09:30 PM
Well Max about covered it....... I also wondered what we should expect as far as longevity. Dose it make a difference if the car is only seasonal ? Are there any special care we should give to extend the luster or finish, and why is it the header always seem to start to show rust threw in the collector area, right were the for pipes enter. Is it better to have it coated inside also or is that really a waists ? What are the differences in product that allows the coating to with stand higher temps ? What proses do you do after blasting ? Do you do a chemical wash, and do you preheat the parts? ;) Thanks CCP ! !

Hello:

Prep prior to coating: There is usually no need for the customer to do any blasting or clean up prior to Ceramic Coating his exhaust components. If a coater asks you to, or requires you to, run away as quickly as possible. The reason for this is that the required prep for exhaust coatings is nearly medical in nature. Meaning, when we receive your pipes the first stage to coating them is clean up in which they go into a burn off oven and are baked from 650F - 850F for about 5 hours. This ensures all the oils and organics are burned off of your pipes so that they can go to the next step, blasting / profiling. If you have some Joe blow blaster strip your pipes, or they are blasted with any NON CLEAN media, you are merely blasting all the oils and contaminants that were on the last guys parts into YOUR headers…. The only exception to this rule for us is if you currently have failed jet hot or similar coatings on your headers. The old coating needs to come off first so any competent blaster can do this assuming he uses a PROPER grit and media. From there they get burned and are once again blasted prior to coating. After blasting, the pipes are readied for the desired Ceramic Coating. They get sprayed and are then promptly baked according to Ceramic type.

Since you’re asking about luster and longevity I assume you’re concerned with Bright Ceramic Coatings. A properly coated pipe on a properly tuned vehicle can last indefinitely. Dulling, rusting, blistering, flaking, etc are conditions usually resulting from improper temperatures / coatings or improper application. Once the pipe is overheated it will dull out and open the pores of the material resulting in little rust spots and eventually full blown flaking it the temps are extreme. For example, the biggest problem with Bright Ceramics is they are used in application in which they exceed the safe temp range. The big one being START UP of a new engine or dyno tuning with Bright Ceramic. Both situations are likely to result in either a too rich or too lean condition. Both are equally bad. Additionally, using Bright Ceramic Coatings on any turbo or supercharged application will likely lead to failure. There are few exceptions to this rule. Most shops including the “Big Box Guys” that rhyme with Jet Hot most times don’t know better or care about your particular situation to tell you otherwise. This is likely the biggest contributing factor to their recent bankruptcy that burned suppliers for about 900 million dollars.

On the subject of big box guys, don’t be fooled by claims of most that say they are coating your headers inside and out. This is typically a play on words. Some may actually go through the motions of spraying inside your primary and collector area as far as you can see, but this isn't always getting the full tubes. We do this as a standard, but we don’t refer to it as “ID” coating. Two problems here, Bright Ceramic won’t stick to any areas not properly prepped / etched and most coaters don’t spend much time blasting these areas. Further, even if you were to spray it all through the pipe, very little will stick after polishing and actual use. This actually works fine for most customers but for those that have specific applications we can spray 100% of tube ID’s with a different 2000F material that will stick in less than ideal situations.

As for Ceramic Coating options we one of the most diverse selections at 10+ colors. ALL Bright Ceramic coatings are good for 1000F – 1100F metal temp and about 1300F-1700F EGT. This is why on some RARE occasions you will see a turbo or high temp application with Bright Ceramic that appears to be holding up. In applications like drag cars, vehicles running alcohol or many street and race motorcycles, the pipes are not getting hot enough to cause issues. They may technically be running hotter EGT’s on limited occasions but rushing air on them is keeping the skin temp cool enough to not cause problems. I repeat, this is VERY RARE…… Our High Temp Ceramics are good for 2000F+ and we recommend these for any turbo or supercharged application fitting the above criteria. This coatings are pretty idiot proof, meaning you can put these on new motors or dyno scenarios with little worry of overheating them. We coat MANY big HP turbo cars with these coatings which represents about the toughest Ceramic Coating environment.

As for pricing, there are MANY variables in place but as a general rule regarding mid to full length headers, SB’s applications are in the 240-275 ranges and BB’s are in the 250-295 range. Costs below and above these numbers would be full out big tube race headers, multiple piece headers, shorty headers and stock cast iron manifolds.

I think I covered everything, but let me know if you have any additional questions regarding the process or topic. If you have questions regarding a specific application, please email us with pics and basic dimensions.

Thanks,
CCPcoatings.com

Proper color for Bright Ceramic
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-680HZPpi7eM/Tb7F66l09kI/AAAAAAAADEw/CXOJJ0XsB7I/s720/DSCF0026.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-P1UTdYpYDLI/TuLg_H_L4AI/AAAAAAAAD2I/POc8pyPx1eg/s720/DSCF0144.JPG

Overheated headers due to untuned engine start
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-klvaEZf4DTY/T8hhG__OwcI/AAAAAAAAERM/isQg51Lg3Us/s720/DSCF0144.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JnWSdGH12kY/T8hhMJS67xI/AAAAAAAAERM/6fw4i8rq1Wg/s720/DSCF0164.JPG

Jet Hot on a 6.6 turbo Diesel Duramax
http://ccperformance.com/images/FailedCeramicCoating.jpg

Bright on Honda turbo header
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YGX95p1u9ik/T8hlVbGEgII/AAAAAAAAERg/zSLRV9_uOmE/s720/DSCF0038.JPG

Factory Ceramic on Class 8 truck - Turbo
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-X2WX_oKjNeQ/TuLg5SC1m4I/AAAAAAAAD2I/dG4H5iRAebU/s720/DSC00123.JPG

High Temp Ceramic appliactions
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KCbEMk9jCgw/TBZ_LIVHY4I/AAAAAAAACtk/sihQhthm28U/s720/%2521BvEsLGgCWk%257E%2524%2528KGrHqIOKjoEvNoEoge-BMD%2521e%2528UqwQ%257E%257E_3.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1fHz3cTAOwU/SOq6dRh8t4I/AAAAAAAAADk/RSx7ZDa8aaI/s720/100_2907R.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Y6Aqtx-IyEE/TFj2-ajE-MI/AAAAAAAACyw/PuEaTlrU8Bc/s720/34169_1233373452916_1786578288_481540_5665806_n.jp g

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-M4GVTdXafyA/SVxSkjhYzkI/AAAAAAAAA78/H4Usc7Yvrdw/s768/Race%2520car%2520engine%2520004.jpg

2000F Ceramic Coating on kooks SS headers for Z06 Corvette
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-En8Uo-0uZdI/UIq0ldPB37I/AAAAAAAAE98/Zaz5KhM0N44/s720/DSCF0360.JPG

Some Ceramic Coating options
http://ccperformance.com/images/CeramicCoatingColors.JPG

1946Austin
10-28-2012, 10:23 PM
Thank you very much for taking the time to really explain ceramic coating! That''s the best treatise I've ever read, and we should make this a sticky in the tech section!

ProMetalShop
10-28-2012, 11:00 PM
I agree Vall, this was a great read, very informative. There were keys I was looking for in my questions. Thank you for taking the time to answer specific. This will make a great sticky thread. ;)

Cptnbob
10-28-2012, 11:27 PM
Wow! That's some great information! That pretty much answered any questions I may have had. Thanks for sharing that with us and welcome to the forum.

CCPcoatings.com
10-29-2012, 12:36 AM
Well Max about covered it....... I also wondered what we should expect as far as longevity. Dose it make a difference if the car is only seasonal ? Are there any special care we should give to extend the luster or finish, and why is it the header always seem to start to show rust threw in the collector area, right were the for pipes enter. Is it better to have it coated inside also or is that really a waists ? What are the differences in product that allows the coating to with stand higher temps ? What proses do you do after blasting ? Do you do a chemical wash, and do you preheat the parts? ;) Thanks CCP ! !

PS, if you have bright pipes we recommend a light light wax / polish at least once or twice a season. We use Flitz liquid metal polish but you can use pretty much any NONE ABRASIVE aluminum polish. The aluminum skin is pretty thin so anything abrasive will create problems. This will keep your pipes bright and shiny.

MAXFLO
10-29-2012, 01:33 AM
I think with the time you took to provide us that great info you've earned my business!!! Thanks CCP!!!

CCPcoatings.com
11-08-2012, 11:43 AM
No problem.....